Panicheva Zoya Vasil'yevna.

Interviewed by Daniela, Valentina, Margherita and Benjamin in her room of the flat she shares with her son in Konstantinovka on April 9th, 2013. Text in square brackets serves as explanation and commentary added by the interviewers.

I was born on January 15th 1926 in Zhytomyr. In my family there were three children. My father, Vasiliy, was a teacher, my mother, Vera, a secretary. We were very poor.

The autumn I was sixteen, police arrived with dogs and took everyone of a certain age – including me. I didn't have time to take anything with me from my house. They immediately took me to a train wagon. On the way to Germany they didn't feed us. We were traveling like sardines in a can.

When we arrived, it was in the city of Wuppertal, they ordered us to wash. Two Germans sprayed us with cold water from a hose. I was sent directly to a glass factory. There they divided us between different jobs: Someone to cut, someone to pack. I was working on cutting the glass. I was very afraid of the Germans. They paid us two Marks per month. We were treated like prisoners, but they didn't beat us in the factory. Instead they punished us with cold showers. There were two guards. One was a very cordial and good person, the other bad: He was a true fascist. I could understand some German because I learned it in school. We also had a translator. In the factory, which was very warm because of the machines, there was a bathroom and we could wash with warm water, but we didn't have any soap.

We were living in barracks in one half of the lager, in the other half there were Polish prisoners. In the room we were twenty-five people. We were sleeping on two-story bunk beds. There were also some wooden cupboards. Our clothes were white shirts and trousers with blue stripes, on my arm I had to wear an "OST"-sign. From the trousers I made a skirt. But in the winter it was very cold. The Polish prisoners were treated better than us. While they were feeding us like pigs, they were feeding the Polish people better, separate from us. Sometimes they let them bring us a little bit of bread or potatoes. But they were feeding us very badly. Sometimes we received letters from home. They let us write back, but very rarely. Sometimes even packages from my mother arrived with bread, two hundred fifty gram. We divided it between the people. I was so happy. Sometimes the guards were giving us a little "butterbrot", but they were afraid themselves that someone would catch them. I had one friend: If we had some food, we'd share it.

Once when I was working I cut my hands because we didn't have gloves. My arm started to get bad from the infection, and we never got any medicine. I wasn't even able to put on clothes. We were forced to work day and night, working as hard as wolves. They were loading and unloading freight wagons. Sometimes potatoes arrived by train and they were unloaded to a bunker-like building. We stole and hid some, exchanging roles of thieves and lookouts between us, then cooked and ate them. I was hiding them under the mattress where I was sleeping. If they had caught us they would have killed us. We were all thin as fingers.

There were very, very, very bad people and very, very, very good people in Germany. I was surprised at the ideal cleanness in the country. On Sundays we had holidays if there wasn't work. Once we went to the city looking to buy [unclear]. But when we opened the cans we found small frogs inside. Some of us had already eaten some. They got sick.

Later I was working in a house. The woman brought me around and showed me how I must put everything into order, to clean. She liked me very much, although I think she was afraid of me because I was hungry when they had plenty. She was a very good woman, a person full of heart. She was saying that she wanted to "dress me up like a doll". She also said she wanted to help me, but she was afraid. Her husband was bad, he was a policeman. Until I cut my leg I was bringing around another girl so she was always with me. She stole everything she could get her hands on. I never stole anything. The woman died when a bomb fell on the house. I was very, very sad.

I was in Germany for four years. We were set free by Americans but I personally didn't see them. When they set us free they gathered us in a lager. [It's not clear whether it was the same one they had been kept in the previous year, or a separate one, or why Panicheva Vasil'yevna didn't see any American soldiers personally.] They loaded us into cattle wagons and brought us home. But there we were greeted as "enemy of the people". After coming back I was working in a kolkhoz.

 

Pugachova Nesterivna Lyubov’.

Interviewed by Daniela, Valentina, Margherita and Benjamin in the living room of her home in Konstantinovka on April 8th, 2013. Text in square brackets serves as explanation and commentary added by the interviewers. This interview was more difficult than others, both for Pugachova Lyubov’ , visibly shaken and emotional, and for the group of interviewers.

I was born on March 8th 1921 in Izyum, in the Kharkov Oblast [region]. I had one brother and one sister. In 1922 my mother died and within one month, my brother and my sister died too. Then I stayed with my father and my grandmother. My grandmother died. My father was working in the mines where he had an accident and also died. I was eight years old when I was sent to orphanage that was 18 km away from Izyum.

In 1939 I was sent to work in a factory that produced clay dishes in the Donetsk region. The war started and on March 22nd 1942, I was twenty years old then, together with 17 other people I was taken to Germany. We traveled by train in a wagon made for horses. The trip took one week, and during that time, ten people disappeared. [It's not clear whether Pugachova Lyubov’ means that they were able to flee, or that they were killed, or if she even knows for sure.]

I was brought to a lager in the city of Duisburg. Half of the lager were Ukrainian prisoners, the other half French and Belgians. I was living in a four floors lager with barred windows. They fed us very badly, a piece of bread for four days and 150 grams of margarine, “briukhva” [turnip soup] for lunch and dinner. Life was very hard there, and we weren't allowed to leave the camp. When we went to work, we were guarded by police with dogs. Those who tried to escape were killed. I was working as a loading porter.

I stayed in Germany for three and a half years, until we were set free by American and Soviet soldiers. I returned in October 1945. Back at my old factory I worked as a loading porter for fifteen years until I got sick and they gave me a lighter job. In 1953 Stalin gave an order that women cannot work as porters, so I was moved to another department. [It's not clear from Pugachova Lyubov’s narrative whether it was her sickness or the new law that actually caused her to be transferred.] I worked for 60 years.

I met a partner and we had four children, three of them have already died. We weren’t officially married. He knew I have been in Germany. [It's not clear whether this was why they didn't marry.] He died on January 18th 1980.

 

Melnykova Maria

Interviewed by Kassandra (Germany), Jakob (Germany), Agnese (Italy) and Khrystyna (Ukraine) . Text in square brackets serves as explanation and commentary added by the interviewers.

Life before the war

I was born on the 18^th of August 1926 in Poltava region. During the Famine time

[Soviet famine of 1932–1933] we came here, to Konstantinovka. I am a motherless child. My mother died when I was 10. I was raised by my father. When we came here, firstly we lived in a park. I studied at school №16 and finished 7 grades.

The Famine started in 1932. The soldiers came and took everything. Father was also taken and I stayed with my grandmother.  When she died my father was set free. Then he suggested going to Donbas. My father was 32 and I was 6 when we came here. He worked at the Frunze factory. When he was at work, I had to go to scrap yards in order to find some food. We were given a small room. From one side there was a TIR [shooting gallery], and from the other- we lived. He died here, in Konstantinovka. In 1946 I got a job and after I bought a house.

I heard about the beginning of war on the radio. The bombing started and my father dug a cellar for us to stay there. He and my stepmother were in the garden when Russian soldier came to the house. He said if I didn’t want to go to work in Germany I should sleep with him. If not he would write a note to a Labor exchange and I would be taken to Germany. Or in the other case if I hide somewhere he would kill my parents. I didn’t have any choice and went to Germany. On the next morning soldiers came and took me to the Labor exchange. After we all went to Donetsk and stayed there for 2 weeks in order to gather everyone. Father stayed at home. He worked at the military guard.

Life during the war

In May, 1942 we were taken to Germany.  We went in cargo wagons. There was straw inside on the ground. I don’t remember exactly how many we were, but for sure a lot. One break we had in Zhytomyr. And we wanted to run away. We were 12, but someone revealed our plans. After that we were beaten by German soldiers. We came to Eisenach city to the plane factory, where was a production of details for planes. We lived in wooden barracks. Our work was cleaning. The first year we were cleaning at the factory, on the camp territory, on the cemetery. Also there were lathes. I remember there was one German woman and she taught me everything there. Everything was ok if there were no defects. In other way we were punished. Also there was one girl form Konstantinovka and we were friends in the camp.

Our meal consisted only of spinach and turnip. We hadn’t seen bread at all. We didn’t want to eat that food. There was one German woman and when she saw that we rejected to eat, she turned over our plates and ordered to eat from the ground. We were forced to eat. But with a time we got used to it, because any way you want to eat something. Because of the climate change we had problems with health; we had wounds on our hands, legs.

On the 9^th of May we were liberated by Americans. Stalin issued an order that we were treated as enemies of the country, and we should be taken not homes but to “Kolkhoz” [ was a form of collective farms in the Soviet Union]. I don’t remember the name of the village that we were taken to gather the harvest and collect the hay. But when was the time to go home, we were not allowed to come inside the wagon, only to the corridor of the carriage. We worked hard, suffered and at the end became the enemies of the country. It was not our fault that we were taken to Germany.

Before the departure we had a medical examination in Germany and after were sent to that village. Only in November I reached home.

Life after the war

After the Stalin’s order we were treated badly. When I came from Germany my father helped me to get a job. I worked as a student on the factory for half a year, then as a worker. After the factory I worked in the garage, in the school as a guard. I have 64 years of service. I finished working when I was 76.

My daughter and younger son died. I live with my older son and his family now. My husband drank and was paralyzed and died. We lived with him together for 46 years. We went through a lot.

He beat me because of the fact that I worked in Germany. I tried to hide from him this information, but my stepmother didn’t like me and didn’t want me to marry him, and told him everything. But my children knew about my work in Germany.

Also we received the compensation from Germany. I don’t remember the sums but at first it was in Deutsche mark, and then in euro. I received the notification from bank about the money.

During those times the attitude to Germany was bad. But now time has changed and people as well. There are good and bad people everywhere. Even there was one German woman who brought me time to time some sandwiches.

  It’s good that you all came today and remember about us. Everyone should know about those times.

Dubrova Vera Porfirevna

9^th April, 2013

Alessia (Italy), Oksana (Ukraine), Nora (Austria), Kim (Austria).

My name is Dubrova Vera Porfirevna and I was born on October 12th 1924 in Cerenjavshina , a village in Urjevskij district and part of Dnipropetrovska Region.

Life was difficult in my hometown and my family moved to relatives in Lozovaja. My father was working in a mine and my mum was at home taking care about me, my sister and my brother.

In 1942 I was forced to go with German soldiers and put on a train. I decided to escape and found a host where I could spend the night. As soon as it was possible I wanted to go to my uncle’s house. Going in the night would have been too dangerous. The woman that hosted me promised to wake me up in the morning. When I woke up I heard voices of German policemen in the house, but the woman hid me.

In May 1943 Germans said that they would have taken all the relatives of the Soviets who would have not gone to Germany, for this reason I decided and left. Luckily, I was allowed to bring some things with me. I went to Germany by train, which was actually a mean of transport for goods. Men and women were all together.

In first days of june I arrived to Schwerin, where I started to work in a factory. I had to collect fruits and vegetables and later put them in cans. After summer was over I was sent to work in a food factory, whose owner named Janzen. In this factory more than 400 people worked. They were all from different countries: Croatia, Serbia and Soviet Union. Usually we spoke Russian, but there was also one girl who knew German.

The working conditons were not bad: at 7 am work started, at 9 am we had coffee, at 12 pm we had lunch in the factory with different meals every day. When there was some food left from the lunch, we were allowed to bring it home for dinner. Sometimes I gave that food to friends of mine. At 4 pm we had coffee again and at 7 pm work ended. They also gave us to two loaves of bread per week and furthermore some margarine and coffee. Every friday we got a salary of 15 German Marks.

On the weekend we did not have to work but on the first half of the saturdays we had to clean the work places and on the second half we cleaned our sleeping places. At the second floor of the factory there were rooms for workers where we used to live all together. We had to change the bed linen of our beds every two weeks. The clean ones were on the bed when we return from work. Germans afterwards checked if everything was clean. Sunday was free: we were allowed to take walks through the city, but only if we would be back on time.

As some worker had the possibility to listen to the radio, we heard that the war was over:  Russians were in the city and set us free. Those days German people said to the Soviet soldiers that we, the Ostarbeiters, were there volunteerely.

When the Soviet Army liberated us, we were sent to a close village, named Gustrow, where we lived and worked there until September.

In Gustrow I also got to know my future husband, who was originally from Brest and worked as a soldier in the Soviet Army. We married in 1945 and our son was born on 9^th May 1946 (Victory Day). Later my husband was sent to the “Chaljabinsk 40”, a secret factory, which was actually a nuclear plan, and came back ten years later. He started then working in a brick factory.

In 1955 I moved to Konstantinovka with my husband. My family knew that I was in Germany, but I did not tell anyone else that I was there as Ostarbeiter. I tried to have contact with other people who have been in German, but only around my hometown in Dnipropetrovska Region, because I did not know anyone in Konstantinovka.

I worked in the glass factory “Avtosteklo”, but I refused to work in the military production part of the factory.

Germany paid me three times money for reparation, but I did not receive any money for my husband’s work, because he died in 1993.

           

Valentina Pogorelova

8th April, 2013.

Alessia (Italy), Oksana (Ukraine), Nora (Austria), Kim (Austria).

My name is Valentina Pogorelova and I was born in 1925 in Rostov-on-Don. I lived with my grandparents in a kolchoz then we had to move and live with my aunt. Later the Germans murdered her. Before the war started I had just finished the 9th grade. One of the few things I remember from my schooltime was that we always cheated when we had a test.

When I heard about the war on the radio, my sister and I decided to volunteer as nurses. Many people applied as volunteers but unlike them, we were rejected because we were too young. Later on, the bombing began and all the inhabitants were hiding in bomb shelters. On October 15th 1942 I was forced to go to Germany. I was taken away with many other people.  As we all knew about this before, we had some time to collect food and pack some clothes.

Our first stop was in Stuttgart and then I was brought to Thuebingen, where I started working in a doctor’s house (he was called Uzatel) for one year and a half. When I was starting to work there, Dr. Uzatel was at the front and I was alone with his wife and their children. They treated me badly. Even their children did not speak to me, they used to tell me what to do. This family was very rich and the house had 54 rooms and I had to clean all of them. Besides that I also took care of their garden and their animals (pigs, cows and chickens). Every day I had to get up at 5am.

I lived in a small room under the roof. There were a small bed, a chest and a small basin for washing my hands. In the house of Dr. Uzatel I did not get enough food. His wife measured sausages, bread and sour cream.

When her husband came home from the front and saw me for the first time, he asked her wife what I was doing there, unable to work (because I had been hurt by his wife) . She answered him that I did not come volunterely, but I was forced to. Furthermore he wanted to know why she used to behave rudely with me even though it was me who took care about their children. Life there was better when Dr. Uzatel did not have to work on the front and spent time at home. Then I used to get more food and the doctor also worried about my health: he thought I had tuberculosis.

Something really special for me were the presents I got from the doctor. I remembered getting a dress hidden in a wooden egg, with a pair of shoes of my size (36). Unfortunatly I was not allowed to take this presents with me when I left.

Compared to the workers in the factory I did not have much free time. Just on Sundays I had some time off and I spent those two hours meeting some other forced workers and discussing  our bad working conditions. For 2 years I met those people. I began to forget Russian, because my German improved. On Sundays I had to be back at 5pm, otherwise the doctor and his wife would not allow me some free time anymore. One Sunday, I was already late, I met a fat policeman and he asked me in German: “Where is your “OST” sign?” and I answered in Russian: “Ch’ort puzatiy!” (“You devil with fat belly!”).He thought that I was talking about the doctor, as his surname was Uzatel [note: the policeman misunderstood her Russian as bad German pronounciation of the name Uzatel]. Luckily, the policeman was a nice guy and did not understand what i said to him and just reminded me to put the “OST” sign on next time, without giving me a fine.

One time I sat down to play the white piano. The hostess saw me and said: - Where are your hands? - and called me “dirty russian”. I explained her, that I would have cleaned the piano. I also remember some other situations when she threw some object against me.

Once I was locked in the room where they used to wash the clothes. I wanted to escape through the window, but the woman saw me, sent the dogs after me and shouted: - Axel! Etel! Bite her! -  I answered in Russian: - You are a fool! I feed them, they will not bite me! -  Still, I did not manage to escape.

After a new decree promoted by Molotov, saying that every German was responsible for Russians in Germany, I decided to commit suicide in a river. But as I grew up in Rostov-on- Don I was a really good swimmer. A policemen saw me swimming, picked me up and brought me to a labore office. The employer of this office, a German woman, brought me back to Miss Uzatel and she told me that I would have worked there until she would have found another place for me.

It must be around one month later, when the labor office found a new place: it was in an orphanage.  Most of the children were from immigrants and almost all of them were not able to speak German. In this orphanage nuns took care of the children. The nuns treated me really good, we would even celebrate birthdays. I stayed there for one year and a half.  As the orphanage also included a hospital, we had the red cross on the roof and were not bombed. We used to eat all together, except when the officers ate there. I was not allowed to enter the room.

I was liberated by the British and the Americans. I tried to run away  because I did not understand that the soldiers wanted to free us as they were very unfriendly. After seeing my sign on the shirt saying that I was from Soviet Union, they changed into being friendly.

On our way back to Rostov, we stopped in a former concentration camp which was already in Soviet Union. The conditions were really bad in the camp, even after the liberation. We slept on the streets because we did not want to stay in the barracks of the camp, the smell and conditions were unbeareble. In this lager I also saw the crematorium. There were ashes everywhere and a cruel smell that I will never forget.

Finally, on October 20th 1945, I came back to Rostov. After I got married to my husband, I moved to Konstantinovka. My husband started working in the glass factory Avtosteklo and I was even offered to join in the party, but I refused. After the death of my husband I wanted to return to my hometown because I did not have enough resources to stay anymore, but the director of the factory offered me to keep my flat. He would have paid for it.

In the 1990ies I received reparations from Germany (three times 650 German Marks), now I have some benefits from the Ukrainian government for domestic bills.

Мария Ильинична Божинская

5 Апреля, 2013.

Алеся, Маргерита, Агнесе (Италия), Оксана (Украина).

Меня зовут Мария Ильинична Божинская. Я родилась 6 июня 1925 года в Запорожская область, Куйбышевский район, село Вершина, 300 км от Kонстантиновки.

Я переехала сюда в Kонстантиновке перед войной, в 1932 году, потому что моя семья была раскулаченная. мой отец имел две лошади и из-за этого его судили. Он сидел в тюрьме пол года, а потом был обижен не хотел возврашаться туда. У нас были родственники в Kонстантиновке, мой папа работал на Aвтостeкольном заводе, моя мама работала, где пришлось, в семье была голодовка, и когда она работала в столовой она принесла домой отходов пищи.

Когда война начилась в 1941 году, завод восстановили на Урале и начили выпускать военную технику и мой папа там работал. В 1942 отец и брат пошли на фронт. Мы жили рядом с аэродромом; немцы туда бросали зажигательные смеси и нам было очень страшно, поэтому мы поехали обратно на родину, в вершину. там в деревне мы жили хорошо, у нас был огород. До войны я успела школу закончить. Mы узнали что война началась по объявлению радио и в 1942 году немцы захватили Kонстантиновку. В 1943 году меня забрали в Германью на работу вместе с моей подругой но потом нас разделились и отправили в разных местах. Нас были только девушек, мы знали что нас отправили в Германию на работу, и больше ничего. Мне тогда было 18 лет, мы все были молодые, с 15 до 25 лет. Я пошла работать на поле в Шнайденбург (сегодня находится в Польше и называется Острожница), в ферме. Я не одной была, но вместе с трех девушками и двумя парнями, военнопленники, все с Украины. Нас кормили картофелями, нас хватало. Нам давали немножко денег, мы ходили на рынок и покупали конфеты. Я смогла даже переписовать с моими родителями. Я там работала больше два с половиной года, но мы все время общались на русском, поэтому я не выучила немецкий. Когда война закончила, мы об этом узнали потому что у наших военнопленных пришло сообщение. Нас освободили Советская Армия, это было тежелый момент, они не очень хорошо велели себя, но один солдат из Ленинграда спас меня, мы разговаривали и никто к нам не пристовал. Сразу мы собрались и поехали домой на поезде, по дороге никто нас не трогал. После освобождения я нашла работу помошницей нотариуса. Если бы они знали что я была в Германии конечно бы не взяли меня, но никто не спрошивал. Я никому не рассказывала что я была в Германии, это была запрещенная тема. Даже в семье об этом не говорилось. Моя дочь только узнала что я работала в Германии когда ей было 20 лет. У меня нет никаких воспоминаниях о страшных моментах, работа не тежелая была и семья неплохая, они были пожилые люди и никто нас не обижал, когда я уехала хозяйка даже подарила мне платье. Как весде, немцы бывали хорошие и плохие, я помню как нам давали конфеты и детям шоколадки. Я дважды получила деньги из Германии, у меня не были никакие документы чтобы доказать что я там была, мне пришлось искать в немецком архиве.

Мой папа рассказал мне что когда они зашли в Венгрию, была такая жара и жажда,они прошли через виноградский пол и его товарищ, у кого была температура, трогал один единтсвенный ягод и его застреляли. Кто попадал в плен, тот был считанный уже как измены родины, поэтому я боялась рассказать мою историю.

Maria Il’inichna Bozhinskaja

Interview taken the 5^th April, 2013 by Alessia, Margherita, Agnese (Italy), Oksana (Ukraine).

My name is Maria Il’inichna Bozhinskaja. I was born 6 june 1925, in Vershina, 300 km from Konstantinovka. In 1932 I moved to Konstantinovka with my parents before the war because my family was considered Kulak. My dad own two horses and because of this he was arrested. He spent six months in the jail in Marjupol’ and then he did not want to come back. In Konstantinovka my dad was working in the glass factory and my mom used to work where it was possible. Our family suffered for hunger and when my mom would find job in a canteen she would bring home the left food. Before the war started I was able to finish my studies.

The industry where my dad used to work was moved to Ural’ mountains and he went there to work for one year. The production had changed from civil to military.

When the war started in 1941 my dad and my brother went to the army. My dad told me that when the Soviet Army was in Hungary, they once were passing through a grape field. It was summer and really hot, they were all thirsty. One of his fellow had temperature and took a single grape, for this officers from Soviet Army shot him.

We used to live near the airdrome when the Germans came, when they started throwing incendiary materials we decided to go back to our city, Vershina, and there we used to live quite well as we had a garden.

I found out the war was begun by radio announcements and in 1942 Germans came to occupy the city. In 1943 I was taken (I was 18 years old) to go to force labor to Germany with my friend Galina. Germans used to take young people, usually between 15 and 25 years old. We travelled together but then they sent us to different workplaces. We only knew that we were going to Germany for working and ended up in Schneidenburg (now Ostroznica, Poland), working in the in the fields. The work was not really hard and I was not alone there. There were other three girls and two war prisoners, all from Ukraine. We used to eat potatoes for lunch and dinner, every day. We received some money, so we could go to the market and buy some candies. I could even send letters to my parents. I worked there for more than two and a half years and we all the time were speaking in Russian between us. That’s why I never learnt German.

We found out the war was over because the war prisoners received a message. We were set free by the Soviet Army, but it was not easy moment as the soldiers would offend us for being working there. I met one soldier from Leningrad, he saved me. We used to chat and nobody was bothering us. On the way back to Ukraine I did not encountered any serious difficulty. We went by train and it was not a really long trip.

I don’t have generally bad memories from that times: As everywhere the Germans were sometimes nice to us, I even remember that some of them would give us some chocolate. The family where I used work was polite, even if we would not meet them often and nobody used to offend us. Before I left for going back to Ukraine, the lady gave me as present a nice dress.

After the end of the war I received two times a reparation for my forced work, even if I did not want them. The first time Germany paid me in marks, the second already in euro. I did not have any documents to prove that I spend more than two years working in Germany, then I wrote a letter to the German Archive. I got an answer back confirming my forced labor.

When I arrived to Konstantinovka in 1945 I found a job in a notary office, but I would not tell my story to everyone. Nobody was asking me where I had been, even if they knew I had been to Germany. It was forbidden to tell the story of Ostarbeiters before late 90s. I even spoke about this to my family really late, my daughter was already 20 years old.Who was taken as prisoner, was considered as enemy of the Country, that is why I was scared to tell my story of life in Germany.

Nikolaj Alekseevič Pogasij

Interview taken the 5th of April by Alessia, Margherita, Agnese (Italy), Oksana (Ukraine)

Born in 1926 in Barvenkovo, a city 100 km away from Konstantinovka.

How was your life before the war?

We had a really poor life because we were 8 people (mum, dad, 5 brothers and 1 sister) and we lived just from the pension of my dad. He worked in the metallurgic industry in Konstantinovka and my mother wasn't working because she had to take care of the house and the family. We had two horses and a vegetable garden. Without this we would have died.

My parents were not interested in politics since basic needs of the family were the most important things. In my childhood I experienced poverty, but now I have a quite good pension.

How did you know that the war started?

I knew it thanks to radio announcements. The war started in June and the Germans arrived here in October. They occupied the city and restored part of the city. They did not bomb too much of the city.

How did your life and the city change during the first months of war?

Industries were not working anymore. I didn’t understand exactly what was going on because I was too young. All my brothers went to the army and even my sister left to serve as a nurse. I remained alone at home with my parents. My dad didn’t go to the army as he was already 60 years old.

I had different experiences with Germans: some of them were nice with us, others were not nice to us. But that experience is common. In general I did not suffer violence from them.

After the beginning of the war life got worst, especially because there was just a little food.

Did you feel angry because of they were here?

Of course we were not happy, but there wasn't strong opposition from local people.

When were you caught by Germans?

I was caught on January or February 1943. I was 16 years old. They caught a lot of other young people. My parents were not deported because they were already 60 years old, and Germans took just young people because they were capable of working. I didn’t have time to take anything with me and they put me immediately on the train: there were no seats because the wagons were used priorely for transporting goods. I was alone and I didn't recognize anyone that I knew. Women and men had been separated. Germans did not tell us about the destination. They fed us, but the food was really bad. Turnip, for example, here it is hard to find it, but they would give us a lot. We were starving, so even if it was not tasty, we ate that food anyway.

That long trip ended in Austria: in a lager at the border to Italy at the Brenner passage in the mountains, at 350 metres above the sea. The name of the place was Lienz. My work consisted in repairing the railway connection between Italy and Germany. It was a very hard work and just men did it. The Americans bombed that place quite often.

I did not know what a lager was before seeing that place and as the conditions of living and working were really hard, a lot of people died in short time. We lived in wooden barracks. There were two or three bunk beds in each barrack. Each barrack was used as shelter for 200-250 people.

There were a few Italians, but lot of English, French, Ukrainian and Russian people, and we were all working on the railway. I have spent almost one year in the lager before escaping. It was a quite big lager. It was impossible to socialize with other people, because they spoke other languages. Russian-speaking people were put into separate groups. I was able to understand only German quite well.

What's the worst memory you have about the lager?

I can just say one word: lager. But I would like to say that not all Germans were bad to us, some were kind and polite.

Did you see people dying?

Of course I saw them. Every day about 60 or 70 people died. I saw thousands of people dying. And Germans with bulldozer put all the corps in a hole.

Is it possible to get used to death?

I believe a normal, sane man, cannot get used to death.

When did you manage to escape?

I escaped with 15 other people when the Americans bombed the lager. We knew that on the North there was Germany, so we ran toward South, but we did not know anything more than that. Some of them died just because they had no more energy.

We arrived to Bolzano. There people speak rather German than Italian. We asked a woman for some clothes, because we were wearing some striped uniforms. She gave me something to wear. But in any case, they caught me again.

Why did you decide to go to Italy, even if you know that there were fascists?

We went to Italy because we knew that there were people who fought against fascists. Italy is the country that saved me; I've been living there for two years and I consider it as my second motherland.

What happened next?

After two months the Italian police caught me again and they brought me to another lager, which was really diffent and better than the first one. We were working in the airdrome in Villafranca. I stayed there less than one month. It was a place for civil prisoners, there were French and English people, but I didn't speak much with them because of the language.

One day a man came to me during the lunch break and he said "Let's go". His name was Ezechia, he's dead now, but he saved me. Then I have been living with him and his family for 2 years. I worked in the fields and at home I learned Italian.

After two years I went to Milan where there was a Soviet Union representation, but at that time it was still impossible to come back home. The war wasn’t over yet. I started to travel to many Italian cities trying to find people from Soviet Union to organize and to go back home. Many older people didn't want to come back to the Soviet Union, because they knew they would be considered as traitors of the motherland and they would maybe be murdered. They fought in the Soviet army and they were captured. I was very young (18 years old) and I wanted to go back.

What are your best memories about Italy?

My best memories of Italy are connected to my family there, because they tought me Italian. People there are all good. My favourite city is Villafranca, but Verona and Venice are also very nice cities. I consider Italy my second Motherland.

Did you have contacts with Partisans?

Few. One or two times I went to destroy German telephone lines. A person tought me how to destroy contacts.

How did you manage then to came back home?

I don't remember very well. I remember that I met my brothers, who were serving in the army, in Austria and I entered the army too. I served the army there until Austria declared its neutrality and then I moved to Ukraine.

Did you manage to have contacts with your family during those years?

Yes. We had the possibility to write each other.

How did you find life when you came back to Ukraine?

I was nothing special. I continued to study and than I started to work in the glass industry and later on "nella fabbrica di mattoni". The city was different because everything was destroyed and new houses have been constructed.

What kind of relationship did you have with your neighbours after the war? Did you want to share your experience with someone else?

It was a normal relationship. But if people in your professional environment knew that you worked in occupied territorities ries, they didn't allow you to work there anymore.

I couldn't speak about my previous life because it was strictly forbidden. I wanted to share my past with my wife and other beloved people, and no one else. 

Did you receive some compensation from Austria?

Yes, in 1999 I received 600 marks and then in 2000 250 euros. We then had the possibility to have an eye operation.

Stanislava Lyudvigovna Karkach.

Interviewed by Daniela, Valentina, Margherita and Benjamin in the dining room of her home in Konstantinovka on April 8th, 2013. Text in square brackets serves as explanation and commentary added by the interviewers. An asterisk [*] denotes locations that could not be verified for sure.

I was born in a village in the “Zhitomovska” [*, Zhytomyrs'ka?] Oblast [region]. My nationality is Polish, but in my passport I am Ukrainian. My parents were working in the kolkhoz, they were from “Zetomov” [*, Zhytomyr?]. In my family we were seven children. Before the war I lived in very bad conditions. I was at school for eight years, and I was very good at it. There I also learned the German language very well.

About the war I found out very quickly and I was really scared. My brother, who was born in 1926, was drafted into military service and died after he was hurt in his stomach. My father died in 1943 because he got sick in the lung when he was hiding from Germans in the cowshed.

At first, I hid from the Germans. They were taking people born in 1925/1926, so they went after me. I was 17 years old at that time. When the police took me for the first time I ran away, which is why I wasn’t in the same place as the neighbors from my village, but there I had a lot of friends. When they did catch me, I was sent to prison for a week. Relatives were allowed to bring us water, some food and clothes. No one fed us, so we ate our food. I had a coat, but later in winter they took it. I was put in a wagon and sent to "Polgograd" [*], where I stayed for six days. Then they collected people to go to work in Germany.

The trip was horrible, there were no stops and we were in locked cattle wagons, men and women together. We were brought to Germany, to Saalfeld [most likely Saalfeld/Saale in Germany's federal state Thuringia]. When we entered in the station it was New Year and the Germans were partying.

With 21 other girls I went by bus to a small village: Lichte. They put us up in barracks with three floor bunk beds, I was in the first. When we were practicing magic to know the future, we burned our toilet. [The prisoners most likely conducted a “spell” that required burning something, which they did in the toilet bowl.]

We were working in a porcelain manufacturing plant on the third floor. There were also other foreigners, from France and elsewhere. They divided us, and I was tasked with making handles for cups. It wasn’t a hard work. Some of the girls were firing the dishes and this work was harder [porcelain is heated to extremely high temperatures in its final production phase]. No one was checking after me, how I was working and they didn’t beat or shout at us. There I had the sign “OST” on my left arm, but I didn't wear it for a long time. In the factory we usually were dancing and singing all the time, it was funny.

My working hours were from 8 am to 5 pm. On Saturdays we were cleaning up and on Sundays we didn’t have to work. Instead, we were showering, had walks in a wood and along a stream near the factories, or we went to the cinema. We had the same holidays as Germans: Christmas, New Year etc. Some times I received postcards from home.

From our group of girls one was chosen and put to work in the kitchen to cook food that we were used to: She was cooking borscht and boiled potatoes, five or six per person. There was enough food and on weekends even more, sometimes meat.

I had long hair before, but I cut it when I was in Germany because that was the fashion in those times. I was very pretty and in Germany, the French Jean was courting me. He proposed to marry me and go to France together, but I refused because I knew that I would never go back home.

When the Germans lost the city of Kharkov, they didn’t allow us to go to the cinema any more, because in front of it hung a newspaper. Not far from our factory there was a crematory in which Germans were burning people. One day they took us there to frighten us. From the pipes was coming out a yellow smoke, it was very scary.

On the 8th of March we had a protest and sewed ourselves red platok [a Russian headscarf] to put on the head.

I was working there for three and a half years. We were set free by Americans. They gave us jackets and I remember that they were chewing gums all the time. We had wooden shoes and we were knocking on the concrete as a sign of protest. [It's not clear when and where exactly this fits into Stanislava Karkach's narrative.]

The Americans put us in big cars, they took me into the cabin and drove us three hundred kilometers to Poland. In the car, one of them gave me a piece of chocolate and after that I drove the car for the first time - that was insane! On the way back, we were able to sell a few things to buy bread.

When I came back from Germany, I moved to Dnepropetrovsk, to work as an accountant. Then I moved to Konstantinovka. Now I am 89 years old and I live with my daughter, one of my two kids. My husband was a pilot.

Sofia Cernobriva

Interviewed by Tatiana (Moldova), Yan (Ukraine), René (Austria) in the living room of her home in Konstantinovka on April 5th, 2013. Text in square brackets serves as explanation and commentary added by the interviewers. An asterisk [*] denotes locations that could not be verified for sure.

Sofia Cernobriva was born on 1^st of June 1931 in the little village of Pokutiv, Kamena-Podoliskaia region. When aged 11 she was deported to Germany to serve 3 years as a forced worker. “We had to use worn clothes from Jewish people to produce blankets. We found gold teeth and watches inside of the clothes.”

Olga Gluhovo (88), Yan (19) from Kiew, Sofia Cernobriva
(82) and Tatiana (20) from Moldova (from left to right)

LIFE BEFORE THE WAR

How was your life before the Second World War? How were the conditions of your childhood?

My father worked in a mine in Gurcencov and had a good salary. I was raised by my grandfather and lived with him. I was very little and I had to help in the household. The taxes were very high, especially for people without children. We were very poor and lived in a small hut in very bad conditions owning a few old furniture. The clothes were given from one generation to the other. For eating we only had mamaliga [corn porridge] and borsch [vegetable soup]. My grandfather owned a cow and therefore we had some milk and cream. We only ate meat for a few holidays. My little sister, who is two years younger than me, was brought up by my mother. In the winter just before school started, my mother picked me up and I could stay with her for some months. My father always brought money for my mother. I only attended school for two years until the war began.

What did your parents think about communism?

My parents never talked with me about communism. I was too young so I had no opinion. The communists did not take our belongings or properties. But all churches were destroyed in the period before the war. When the Germans arrived they were reopened.

1944: Sofia Cernobriva as a forced
worker in Germany when aged 13

LIFE DURING THE WAR

What did media say about the approaching German army?

We had no newspaper or radio, I was only reading a children's book.

How did you find out there is war?

Some administrators from neighboring towns came to us and told us that war had started. Jewish people in our village began to cry.

How were your first feelings about war?

I was sitting on a stone fence and saw our army moving back. After that the Germans approached our village. Some ammunition was exploding with very loud whistling. It sounded like there were many flies around and I ran faster to my home waving my hand. I was so little and did not understand the situation what was happening.

Did you think about running away from home as other people did?

Where should I have gone? Only Jews, communists and partisans were running away because they were afraid of repressions. Ordinary people were not so afraid of war. The most important things for them were their homes where they lived, so they stayed.

How did the Germans treat the people?

The Germans behaved well, but it depended on each German. Some of them were good to us but others not. 7 kilometers from our village there were mass graves, many Jews were shot. There were a lot of mass graves but many people inside of them were still not dead. They were only shot in their legs or arms but still alive when new victims were falling down into the mass grave on top of them. Therefore it is called mass grave.

How were you forced to leave Soviet Union and go to Germany?

I was only 11 years old and the Germans had rules to take only people above 14 years. A notice from our village’s administration came to my grandparents and told them that they have to go to Germany for work. So I would have had anybody to take care of me. Therefore I was taken together with my grandparents. My grandfather thought that the Germans would send us home due to his old age, my grandmother’s sickness and my youth.

Did you think to run away?

When someone ran away and was caught he was beaten very strongly. Those people did not survive the end of the war and its victory. They had a lot of fear to run away...

Could you please tell us about the transport to Germany?

When we arrived at Krakow they sent us in a shower room and put some chemical lotion on us to disinfect us. They put our clothes into a pot to kill all the parasites and we had to go to a doctor where our health was checked before entering Germany. It was in Krakow when I ate for the very first time a small piece of chocolate which some Polish woman gave to me.

Sofia Cernobriva 

Where did you arrive in Germany?

We arrived in Reichersdorf [*] where we were chosen to work in different factories, farms and camps. Red-haired Elisa took us with her. It was a big farm with a two-storey building. Some other Ostarbeiter were there when we arrived. I had to sleep with my Granny in a small room on the floor. The mattress there was filled with hay. The boss of the farm gave us every day different work tasks. I usually had to peel potatoes together with my Granny or work in the household, for example washing the floor or the dishes. At 12 am we had lunch but I could make some little breaks during work. The food we got was not very bad. Usually we ate corn porridge, soup and a few times some meat.

What happened when someone got sick?

There was a Russian doctor in Kaliningrad who settled down in Germany after World War I and he came to our farm if anybody needed help.

Did you celebrate any holidays?

No, we did not have any holidays.

What do you especially remember about your life on the farm?

A long road with many orchard trees. We only could take fruits which were lying on the ground. However, picking fruits from the tree was not allowed to us. Once a boy picked plums from the tree and he got heavily punished.

Have you ever been beaten in Germany?

No, because I always listened, obeyed all rules and did my work perfectly. So I had no problems. I remember that I was afraid to use the toilet in the main building because it was so clean and very white. When friends of the family came to the farm I had to wash the dishes after the meals. All food they left on the plates I could eat afterwards. So that is why I had an almost normal life and enough food.

Do you remember if you had to wear an “OST” patch?

We only had to wear the “OST” patch when we went to the city. However, I did not put it so the Germans could not differentiate me from the others. Sometimes I took photos together with strangers who were working in the town. In the city lived a policeman and he knew all people and made checks.

My grandfather committed some mistakes at work and therefore the boss of the farm was not pleased with him, maybe because he was very old and could not work very well anymore. He sent my grandparents and me to a factory where stoves were produced. In this factory was an accountable named Ulbrich. He went with me and showed me where to take potatoes for food and the alimentary shop. It was my duty to take care of the shop. After that I had to work in the factory’s kitchen from 6 am to 6 pm which was my main duty. Furthermore, I needed to do whatever was told me. Ulbrich said that the shop assistant should give me some candies and chocolate. Germans told him, “she is Russian, so she does not need this”. He answered: “Do you really think that Russians do not want any sweets?” Ulbrich was a nice person. We were living in barracks and cooking for ourselves. This was in 1943.

Finally, also Ulbrich was not happy with the work my grandfather did and he sent us to Kaminiec [*]. There was a factory where pots for flowers were produced and conditions became worse. However, we did not spend a long time there because we had to go to a camp in Bautzen. This was a place where only old and handicapped people were sent. They gave us only one bowl of soup and one piece of bread once a day. You could also buy turnips, a kilogram cost 50 cents.

Furthermore, there was a commander who was very kind, he provided some of his own food to us. For example when he boiled potatoes he also gave me and some other girl a little bit. She was handicapped and even received crutches from him.

I asked the commander if he allowed me to live and work as a babysitter because my life would be better there. However, he told me that he has no rights to do so because I was not above 14 years old.

This men tried to do something good to us and sent us to a blanket factory where we would only have easy work to do. There it was not so bad. Worn clothes from Jewish people were used to produce blankets. After the clothes were torn apart they were washed. We found gold teeth and watches inside of the clothes. When we ate garlic people told us that we would smell like Jewish.

My grandmother got sick and she could not go to work and grandfather said the same but he was not ill. Again they sent us to Bautzen. I cried because I did not want to go back there. But they could not leave me alone.

When we came back the commander treated us very bad because he felt betrayed by us. However, we were lucky because one of the farmers needed people for work. They brought us in a white car and we lived there for three years until the war ended. In a small factory we prepared the pitch for asphalt. I had a monthly salary of only two Mark. With this money I bought some lemonade and we even spent some holidays. At New Year we received a Christmas tree. I had German girlfriends and with them we stole some chocolate from the elder.

One day something bad happened. Near the factory there was a railway station where prisoners had to work. One night they stole potatoes from us. I was near when this took place and the guards followed me with their dogs until they caught me. They thought that I was the thief. I was lucky because the factory’s boss explained the guards that it was him who sent me to the shop. If the boss had not saved me I do not know what would have had happened to me.

Olga Gluhovo (88), Yan (19) from Kiew, Tatiana (20) from

Moldova and Sofia Cernobriva (82) from left to right

LIFE AFTER THE WAR

When Germany lost the war and the fighting came near to our village we went away to take a car to Bohemia. In this moment it was the first time that I saw the war and death. We saw tanks passing and wounded people running away. Then we were found and got home. I had Czech documents and could have stayed in Bohemia. But I missed my mother and my sister very much, therefore we just returned home. There my grandfather was put into prison for five years. My mother had founded another family with new kids and did not accept me. She told me go away and construct my own life. [starts crying]

After that I lived with my grandmother but she died soon. I was 17 years old and was completely alone. I had a garden with 30 are and went to work on a Kolkhoz 350 days a year.

How did the neighbours and other people treat you when they found out that you were an “Ostarbeiter”?

The biggest part of our village’s people were in Germany. After we came back home the KGB interviewed all of us. We were not allowed to work in military factories producing goods for our army. [showing the massive distrust against Ostarbeiters after the war] 

Generally, anybody knew about my past in Germany, only some family members.